Alba wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 5:02pm:

I don't think we were meant to think she was a bimbo - or that he had poor judgement in women. Iirc, her waiting up for hubby was conducted with a pair of horn-rimmed specs and a book rather than a bit of flowery cross-stitch. The book may have been a Danielle Steel or similar pap (sorry to all devotees of DS!) but I never got the impression she was supposed to be an airhead.

Yes, the majority of Straker fans labelled her as a dimbo because she didn't make the connections that would have led her to conclude - and submissively accept - that her husband wasn't all that he now said he was - suddenly a movie studio executive - but I didn't really buy into that analysis.

The script attempted to write her as a woman of the early 70s - or at least a few years on from when the series was filmed, even if she was supposed to represent a woman of the 80s - and I think as written there's nothing to suggest she wasn't a reasonable choice as a (civilian) wife for Straker. The alternative was a blind trust in her man which - even in the 1980s - would have been a touch on the naïve side. Although, it was her ma who employed the PI. Also, I don't think Mary blamed Straker for the accident... I think she blamed him for not achieving the miracle of saving Johnny.

I think Mary gets a raw deal from the fans. But I should probably re-watch the episode.

The police would need to be called.. and not many women would do that. if it is a hospital job, then they would be called as a matter of course, but again. if the woman won't press charges,  there is little they can do.

But there are different attitudes in different areas of the UK

Lightcudder wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 7:25pm:


Here in the US if the police have evidence of any violence or intimidation they will prosecute regardless of what the wife (or live in girlfriend) wants to do.

I think there was a DV case that got national attention in the early 80's that prompted a change in the laws.

Hi Normandie,

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Err, she was way too unsexy to have been meant as a bimbo. Ealing had more appeal in that department  and most certainly Nina or any of the three witches up on Moonbase  No, no, anywhere the Andersons wanted women with a thorough sex appeal they knew how to produce that.

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Well, I contend that part. See below.

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No, that's not my point at all. Additionally I dunno where everyone gets the impression from that he was a studio exec early during their marriage. He wore uniform quite often and well into it (ref. Confetti Check), so she must have thought him being MI well up to the birth of their son.

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Well, there *are* quite a few working women in the series. So the fact that she isn't is of relevance, I'd say. And that is the beginning of daft and superficial for me.

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Err no. And - err differently. I positively hate that trope of "woman marries policeman/vet/doc - turns on him for his work hours".

Even at the time of the series it was shallow and idiotic (and means the woman is dafter than a poodle  ). Not that much later "All Creatures Great and Small" was filmed, first as a movie and then as a series (funnily with Christopher Timothy who was submarine crew in Psychobombs) and we get to see loads of nicely conventional women all married to very busily working men keeping totally ungodly hours and they manage to smile and be supportive!

Mary knew ahead what she'd marry, like anyone who marries someone with an exacting job. You just don't marry an ER doc and then expect to have him/her home for dinner spot on every day.

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No excuse at all, on the contrary. I mean, she's an adult, married and pregnant woman. How can she have her mother dictate her life and not be rather daft?

It may be a necessary plot point and it - in my book - shows that they wanted to paint her the poor wifey, because had she at least engaged that PI herself she would have shown some pluck, initiative and intelligence, but instead she is the total pushover.

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I agree with that.

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As I said, she throws a rather - hm - challenging light on Straker's choices in his private life.

She *is* a daft chick - no profession, no real hobbies, no engaging in the local community, no intelligence to speak of, immediately remarried with the exact same dependance spiel, expecting a behaviour from her partner which he can't furnish (and knowing that ahead). That is more than a little daft to me.

My parents and their friends were of that age at that time, and their life was 100% different. Hell, we are talking the swinging sixties and seventies here! The pill, Woodstock, the Stones - ya know? My mom worked and put my father through half of his university studies that way.

As to Straker, either he ought to have chosen a less dependant, clingy wife - if he ever had any plans for a military career (if it had taken a different direction, he'd still have had the same problem), or he should have sat her down and reasoned it out with her to the point where she will take up some own activities with which to fill the time he is not there. Any which way, he sure did not react on any sort of spot here. And he chose poorly, maybe conventionally, but still poorly.

So unlike some I don't see this as a one-sided thing. My criticism goes to Straker as well. Mary might have been the perfect wife for some bank manager with a plushy 9-to-5 job. But certainly not to a career officer.

And if anything, yeah, she should have taken it up with him, but not wailing, clinging and giving the drama queen. That the writers were capable of writing different stuff for women, we have throughout the series (including those scheming to shoot their hubbies), so they must have wanted what we got here.

Alba wrote on Sep 11^th, 2010 at 2:27am:

Hello Guina -

Clearly you feel very strongly about the character. 

Bimbo in my usage there was "vacuous" as opposed to overly interested in her sex appeal.

I'm not sure I'm up to addressing so many of your assumptions right now - certainly not without re-watching the episode. I do want to say that for any of us, our perceptions of people - real or fictitious - depends at least partly on our personal experiences in life. The fact my perception of the character differs from yours may simply mean we have different life experiences and our individual interpretations of the character differs because of that.

But I do think it's one of the areas where the writers wrote a character to serve a purpose with no expectation of later detailed analysis and disection. If they'd had a crystal ball, I'm sure many of your concerns about Mary Straker's raison d'être - other than as scripted: a wife and imminent mother - might have been adequately addressed. 

Matt, I did read Dragon's stories where she wove Mary into the mix and I really enjoyed them.

Hi Normandie,

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I feel strongly about the characteristics she displays, less the character. I dislike clingy, vapid and stupid, especially when surfacing in females 

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Okay, as (see below) it arrived differently here

bimbo [sl.: attractive brainless female]

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That is a given in my book.

For some a wife doing nothing but sit at home and wait on her husband may even today be perfectly normal. And if the hub is okay with this and the wife is, I wouldn't say overly much, except maybe that it's a pity.

However, and that was the point I tried to make, we do not get a good, little, brave wife sitting at home, waiting on her hub and doing nothing, we get a wife who does that for a while and then turns shrewish. And she knew before.

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It weren't my concerns, you defended Mary from being simply a "daft chick" and being treated so badly by the fans.

 

Hmm... my take on all this; random thoughts....

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I am really really tempted to take up smoking just to piss the government  off!

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I agree. Just as in Thunderbirds (the Hood.. wonderful character.. totally underdeveloped, unused beyond six episodes) and Captain Scarlet..(his ability to 'feel' Mysterons nearby was never developed beyond once episode I think) certain aspects of UFO were touched on, fleetingly and then abandoned with no consideratiopn for future episodes. A serious overall plan for the series would have helped trememdously.

It was a major flaw in much of the Andersons work. They never thought things through. and even if they were unsure if UFO would be accepted, they should have had a simple overall pplan, character outlines, backgrounds, 'reasons for actions' etc. We don't write fanfics without some idea of what our other characters are going to be like, do, etc ...do we? so if anyone was naive, Gerry and Sylvia were!

One of the great things about Babylon 5 was that there was a detailed plan of the whole story from start to  finish, and so there are no uncomfortable 'what the hell was that all about?' moments.

UFO, however, is full of them!  So we have Mary... why did he marry her? Love. obviously...or more ? Pressure  from Henderson etc to be married ( an expectation for astronauts?) The 'obligatory' wifey at home? was Straker hiding the fasct that he was gay?  Did Mary have a hold over him.. (I think I am pregnant.. marry me quickly) or simply.. blind love. she promised hiim everything..
as we say over here,, the bride thinks to herself;  Aisle, Alter, Hymn  and she tried to.

But.. the interesting point, and one that is overlooked in the considerations of the actual marriage, is that Straker could have given up SHADO, needn't have taken the post, but decided to do so. so he must have had guilty feelings over his 'abandonment' of Mary so early inthe marriage. And it does seems that he had retired fairly soon in the marriage.. meeting Henderson with Freeman.. neither in uniform, nor does he appear in uniform afte that (I think.. need to watch it again!)
So Mary is left, suddenly not understanding why hubby is almost ignoring her so soon after the wedding, spending all his time away, Yes. she was naive, but she was probably early twenties? Convent educated? - quite possibly. ,certainly Grammar school. She won't have had much experience of 'life' then. definitley naive, probably totally innocent and left in the dark, wondering what the hell she has done to make her husband  'reject ' her.

Oh Croap. I am beginning to like her..Crappity Smack. Her attitude afterwards was appalling though!!!